Listgroups & Subscription Information
I N D E X T O S E C T I O N S B E L O W
- RAW-FOOD: The internet's most balanced raw-food email group in terms of coverage of all forms of raw-foodism including instincto and vegan/vegetarian raw-foodism, though practice of the latter is less in evidence on this list. There is also occasional discussion of paleo concepts here, and the list is not oriented to promoting a "100% raw" ideal, instead accepting a wider continuum of raw/cooked practices. Raw-Food is a considerably more skeptical list than the Rawlife list (below) due to the presence of a number of individuals who have not fared well on vegetarian raw-food diets. Also, Raw-Food has become home for those who want to be able to discuss raw animal foods above and beyond raw veggie foods alone. For vegan raw-foodists ideologically opposed to any animal foods at all, the Rawlife list--see below--serves as home.
The Raw-Food list was originally unmoderated, but due to hostile behavior, ad hominem attacks, and evasive non-responsiveness by several frequent extremist posters who were eventually booted from the list, there are now a few posting guidelines in place. This is reflected in the discussions on the list, where people are expected to be accountable for any assertions that are intended to represent more than one's personal opinion, a posting guideline that has cut back on much of the idle chatter that can populate other lists.
There is also a Raw-Food FAQ associated with the listgroup that covers the different types of raw-food diets, practices, terminology and abbreviations, and a few of the raw-food gurus and authors.
- RAWLIFE: Devoted to the ideal of raw veganism, this list serves as more of a support group for those attempting to achieve the 100% raw promised land. Debate is not as much in evidence as is advice, pep talk, and personal triumph and travail. The Rawlife list is also more of a free-for-all zone and watering hole for many of the net's raw extremists--some would say more "pure" exponents of vegan raw-foodism. Interesting in its own right for those reasons, however, and also if one desires a more representative cross-section of raw vegan behaviors and practices.
- VEG-RAW: Apparently defunct. (Email info to one of the site editors if you know of a change of status.) The Veg-Raw list was the first Internet email list on raw foods; it was launched in 1995. In 1997 the list was renamed Raw-Food and that list is still in operation today (above). After the creation of Raw-Food, a separate list named Veg-Raw was launched and it operated for several months. It is the second version of Veg-Raw that is now defunct. The archives of the original Veg-Raw list (from 1995 to the renaming in 1997) are included in the Raw-Food list archives (above; note that the Raw-Food archives cover the period 1995 to the present). The archives of the second version of Veg-Raw (i.e., after the 1997 split) are not available.
- SCI-VEG: NOTE--This list began in March 1996 and was active through September 1999 but is now defunct. Unfortunately its very informative archives are no longer available on the web either, and the www.sci-veg.org site has also been taken down, at least for the time being. (If the archives ever return, we'll be happy to provide a link.) We're leaving our previous synopsis of the list up so those who happen to hear about the list can glean a bit of information about the context in which it operated, and its reason for existence, and eventual demise.
Sci-Veg was formed in response to the tendency for conversations about substantive issues to get hijacked on true-believer forums such as VEGAN-L. As the Internet has matured, the quality of discussion on listgroups netwide has unfortunately become more infantile in proportion to the teeming hordes and seemingly limitless supply of low-intelligence ne'er-do-wells coming online. This is especially true with lists on topics such as diet that can become almost religious issues with the participants involved. Some lists are moving to moderated formats in response, and Sci-Veg is an example of the difference a moderated list can make in stimulating more intelligent conversation rather than the emotional equivalent of a fart-fest.
If you're interested primarily in substantiating or defending a vegetarian diet with science, this is the forum for you. Also figuring heavily into the discussions are ethical/environmental issues, and social issues such as how to best present vegetarianism to a skeptical public.
Update concerning the list's demise: Owner and moderator Carl Phillips, Ph.D.'s big-picture vision for Sci-Veg was to bring together a core group of scientifically oriented and trained individuals in both academic and professional positions (and in this it was succeeding to a significant degree) in an attempt to help put the vegetarian movement on a more credible scientific basis with the wider nutritional community in general. (In this latter aim the list had a tremendous amount of work cut out for it, but was beginning to make some modest initial steps toward that end.) The demise of the list according to owner/moderator Carl Phillips, Ph.D. was the result of his eventual frustration with: ongoing political infighting in the vegetarian movement; entrenched resistance to the aim of cleaning up the junk-science-based information permeating much of the movement's promotional efforts; plus sustained personal attacks and interference in his private life from certain factions in the vegetarian community.
Finally, although Sci-Veg is gone, a few traces remain at the following off-site links:
Carl Phillips' resignation from popular vegetarian advocacy
Carl Phillips' parting advice for popular vegetarian advocacy
- VEGAN-L: One of the net's earliest listgroups devoted to veganism, originally hosted on a system at Temple University, the list has since moved to another host. The list serves as an indicator of current opinions in the mainstream, conventional vegan movement. Previously the most influential vegan-oriented list, it now has a relatively small subscriber base. The current list postings and archive can be accessed (read and/or searched) without joining the list.
Paleolithic Diet listgroups
- PALEODIET: Heavily research-oriented, catering primarily to academically oriented participants. (Over half the subscribers have Ph.D.s in a field of specialty.) Posting is moderated by list host Dean Esmay, with resulting quality of questions and information very high. Traceable scientific references abound as almost a badge of honor here, and as a result, a very worthwhile archive of posts containing documented information on evolution as it relates to human diet and clinical nutrition has accumulated. (Due to the moderated format, activity can be very slow compared to other lists, but is compensated for by much harder data and information.) Several of the world's foremost Paleodiet researchers, including Loren Cordain, Ph.D. of Colorado State University, Jennie Brand Miller, Ph.D. of Australia, and Staffan Lindeberg, M.D., Ph.D. of Sweden who has studied the Kitava, are online and contribute.
- PALEOFOOD: A spinoff of the Paleodiet list for people actually experimenting with eating Paleodiet- and NeanderThin-style, including occasional posts from Ray Audette and Troy Gilchrist, coauthors of NeanderThin. The discussions tend to be lively and at times contentious, though usually fairly politely so, and cover a wide gamut, from advice for those new to Paleolithic diet-style eating, to debates over evolutionary and clinical evidence and their practical ramifications for those implementing a Paleodiet today. And if you wanna know how to make pemmican twenty-seven ways from Sunday, you need look no further than this list.
Low-Carb, Ketogenic Diet, Zone, and Atkins listgroups
Snailmail discussion groups
- A snailmail many-to-many, the Natural
Health M2M, which was originally formed as the Natural Hygiene M2M in 1992, still has a large focus on Natural Hygiene topics. Participants discuss their situations and problems much like on internet listgroups, with the major difference being more lengthy, revealing, in-depth, and relaxed conversation, where you can get to know the individuals and their stories in considerable depth. More personable and friendly, with much less flaming than on the internet. The Raw Times site maintains a page of information about the Natural Health M2M and how to subscribe.
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